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Post by izzie on Nov 3, 2015 11:13:35 GMT -5
 Everyone, I just wanted to post my news about using Atrovent in place of Spiriva, in hopes that it may help others breathe much better. So many people on the forums, including myself have had huge issues with the Spiriva. According to my Doctor if I use Atrovent (Inhalation Aerosol), I am not suppose to use the Spiriva which was great news for me because at times the Spiriva caused me to be breathless after taking it. The Atrovent is Ipatropium Bromide whereas the Spiriva is Tiotropium Bromide Monohydrate, but they both do the same thing.....helps relax the scarring in the lungs. I take 2 puffs every 6 hours and it is giving me tremendous relief and endurance during exercise. It takes about 5 minutes for lungs to respond to it, so I inhale deeply, hold and do some relaxed breathing before getting on with my day. If I am feeling particularly breathless, I take one puff of my Ventolin Inhaler just prior to the Atrovent. I am also on Symbicort and 800 mg of Theophylline daily, just for everyone's info. Is there anyone else using Atrovent and are you have huge results with it?.........I would love to hear from you. exerzie bike |
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Post by ken on Nov 3, 2015 15:26:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the information, I’m happy to hear Atrovent in combination with your other drugs works so well. I’ll ask my doc about it when I see her.
I have never tried it as yet, so I can't answer your question.
Ken
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Post by jim on Nov 3, 2015 21:35:26 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing this Izzie, it couldn't have come at a better time for me. I'm looking for alternatives to Spiriva at the moment. I'll add Atrovent to the list I'm taking to my doctor on Friday.
th_haveagr8daybutterflylady
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Post by izzie on Nov 4, 2015 1:43:44 GMT -5
Ken and Jim.....if you have some success with the Atrovent, please let me know. I was quite impressed with it and I would really enjoy knowing that others might benefit from it, as much as I have.
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Post by jim on Nov 4, 2015 5:56:07 GMT -5
Hi Izzie, I'll let you for sure.
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Post by judi on Nov 4, 2015 16:53:23 GMT -5
I took the old Combivent for a couple of years with success, it is Atrovent and Albuterol. I tried to switch back to Atrovent several years ago when I first started having problems with Spiriva and the first dose made me so sick I went to bed until it wore off and when I recovered after 5 hours I threw it out. I am smarter now  and think at at least part of the reason for that was that I still had a lot of Spiriva in my system. If I remember correctly Spiriva has a half life of around 72 hours so if you do happen to have problems at first they could improve over a few days. I am thinking about seeing if I can try Atrovent again too, I can only take Spiriva once or twice a week because my respiratory muscles freeze up. I tried the new Combivent Respimat and it gave me sinus issues and a lot of other side effects. |
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Post by David on Nov 4, 2015 19:30:03 GMT -5
I use Ipatropium Bromide and Albuterol Sulfide in my nebulizer. That works for me.
Spiriva does not work for me. It always amazed me how little the powder is in the capsule.
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Post by jim on Nov 6, 2015 19:07:04 GMT -5
Hi Izzie,
I spoke with my doctor about the Atrovent as well as some other medications.
We decided that I might do better by replacing the Spiriva with Bretaris(aclidinium). The doc also wants me to up my Cymbicort to three times a day.
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Post by izzie on Nov 7, 2015 10:55:51 GMT -5
Judi...sorry you had some issues taking the Atrovent and yes, I found I had to wait until all the Spiriva was out of my system before taking Atrovent as they shouldn't be used together. Like you, I couldn't take the Spiriva every day because it seemed to make my breathing worse shortly after taking it. I had been off the Spiriva for about 3 days before I began with Atrovent.
David...You already take it in it's nebulized form. I first came upon the Atrovent in it's nebulized form when I landed in the hospital emergency and nothing was working including ventolin.....I also had pneumonia. The emergency Doctor prescribed the Ipatropium Bromide in the puffer form and I've stuck with it, with a lot of success.
Jim....Good to know there are other meds that can replace the Spiriva. Let us know how the Bretaris works for you. When you say Cymbicort...do you mean Symbicort? I take my Symbicort 4 times a day........1 puff seems to only help for about 6 or 7 hours, sometimes less depending on what I eat. Foods containing sugar or sugar substitutes seems to cause my throat to swell and adds to tightness in my chest. Hope you have success with the Bretaris.
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Post by susan on Nov 14, 2015 11:03:45 GMT -5
When I was first diagnosed last March, I started out with Apo-Salvent Salbutamol 100 mcg (Ventolin). It caused pain over my heart that felt like someone was pressing on a bruise, more coughing, slight throat swelling, increased pulse rate, shakes, flushing, and a running nose. So I stopped the Ventolin and then I was prescribed only Atrovent as needed. (I tried other drugs too but, I couldn't take the side effects.)
In October, I was hospitalized with pneumonia and they put me on Spiriva. When I left the hospital, I was prescribed Spiriva once a day and 2 puffs of Atrovent every 6 hours for 1 week. If I took Spiriva and Atrovent within 2 or 3 hours of each other, I had problems for the next 5 - 7 hours. It was a long week of side effects.
Now I'm on Spiriva once a day and Atrovent as needed. I haven't used the Atrovent since and I didn't know you're not supposed to take the 2 drugs together.
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Post by jim on Nov 21, 2015 19:43:27 GMT -5
So far I'm doing better with the Bretaris, it doesn't give me the pain in my upper arms, nor send my breathing down when I take it. I think I'm doing a bit better overall. I go back for another breathing test before Xmas.
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Post by judi on Nov 23, 2015 23:14:04 GMT -5
Susan, were you taking Ventolin as needed or were you prescribed 2 puffs 4x per day? I also get chest pain from it but do fine if I only take one puff as needed and don't use it too much. I can get away with 5 puffs or so per day if I have to now but not every day at that rate. It sounds like you are sensitive to beta agonists, if you start slowly you can kind of sneak up on them and your body will adapt and tolerate them better, maybe one or two puffs per day. Don't take it at the same time as Spiriva. If your doctors told you that you should not take Ventolin at all there is a form of albuterol that is a little different and not supposed to cause so many cardiac symptoms. I'm sensitive to those meds too, I had a seizure from a long acting beta agonist when I first started.  |
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Post by gerald on Nov 24, 2015 2:16:49 GMT -5
One other thing you may want to try.
I had to switch from Apo-Salvent Salbutamol back to the brand name Ventolin. They are supposed to be the same but apparently they can differ on fillers. Once I switched I started to get better results and some side effects tapered off.
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Post by susan on Nov 24, 2015 23:46:29 GMT -5
Judi, and Gerald,
Thank you so much for your help. I truly appreciate it. I feel less like I'm on my own.
I was originally prescribed 2 puffs of Salbutamol as needed and my reaction started with the first puff so, now I know I can't take the generic at all. At this point, I would be leery of anything with Salbutamol in it. But, I know first hand, the name brand of medications can be far superior to the generic. I can only take the name brand Atacand for my blood pressure and not the generic, Candesartan. I’m starting to wonder if I’m reacting to one of the “non medicinal” fillers in the generics.
I am currently trying to see if my body will adjust to Spiriva but, so far I feel more short of breath than I did when I was only taking Atrovent. In fairness, maybe I just have to get used to my new normal and/or the SOB is caused by the very dry air in my house. I discovered yesterday that my humidifier on my furnace is not working.
I went to my Primary Care Doctor today and he said that I can take Spiriva daily and Atrovent as needed. My Pharmacist also told me the same thing. I have discovered for myself though, I can't take Spiriva and Atrovent within 2 hours of each other or I spend 5 hours or so suffering. (Dizzy, a little weak, a little SOB, clammy, shaky, and cold.)
When I asked my Doctor about my concern of not coughing up phlegm anymore he said that's how Spiriva is supposed to work. I asked how I would now know when I'm having a flare-up if I don't have phlegm and he made the point that if I take Atrovent for 2 days and it doesn't control the pressure on my chest, then that's a flare-up. (Having gas that causes the pressure in my chest is new to me, it started after I had pneumonia.) He also listened to my chest and said it was clear. Then his nurse shot me. Okay, properly stated, she gave me the Pneumococcal vaccine.
I have an appointment with a nurse specializing in COPD in a few weeks. When she comes to visit me I'll have a list of questions including her advice on using Benylin Mucus and Phlegm Relief or maybe using Mucinex if I have a problem in the future.
Again, thank you.
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Post by gerald on Nov 25, 2015 1:45:54 GMT -5
I would be a bit concerned about not coughing up phlegm unless you are not producing it anymore. Spiriva certainly never has that affect on me!! My doctor just added an additional Symbicort at noon to keep my chest opened up.
I mentioned the Atrovent etc. But his feeling was that we should stick with what is working which is the Symbicort. My body seems to ignore the others and most are just a remix of similar medications.
I know what you mean about the blood pressure medication as well. I had to go back to Cozaar and away from the Generic (which did not work). In Canada there is a company that can help in some cases if you have to pay extra for the name brand, but it only works in Canada and only on some medicines.
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Post by susan on Nov 27, 2015 22:48:32 GMT -5
I don't think I'm producing a lot of phlegm anymore. Occasionally I may have to clear my throat often but I haven't been able to cough up phlegm since Nov. 1. (Okay, I actually keep pretty good records on my health.) Since I'm still okay a after a month of not coughing up phlegm, I'm fairly sure it's okay for me.
In Ontario, since I'm over 65, I only pay $4.11 per prescription for the generic. Since my doctor wrote "No Substitutes" on my script for Atacand, the Province pays what they would for the generic, Candesartan, and I pay the difference.
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Post by gerald on Nov 28, 2015 15:56:50 GMT -5
This is the company I mentioned, I do not deal with them myself. www.innovicares.ca/enThey are connected with the big Pmarmaceuticals and that is where their money comes from so they are not independent. But if they cover the drug costs it might reduce your costs. |
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Post by susan on Nov 29, 2015 5:35:24 GMT -5
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Post by gerald on Nov 29, 2015 11:32:12 GMT -5
When I researched the background. Apparently some of the drug companies will sign up with Innovicares if they can make a profit at generic drug prices. They can not discount the actual price because that affects their worldwide pricing for the brand name. However, within Canada this gives them a way to stay in the market.
I have found the smae thing about generics, sometimes they are fine, many times they do not work for me. I keep finding more and more peopel that are experiencing the same thing.
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Post by izzie on Nov 29, 2015 12:19:26 GMT -5
Susan.......I didn't know that one could take Spiriva and Atrovent together, but they both reduce mucous production. I feel good on the Atrovent and it opens my airways quite well, but I was concerned about the lack of mucous all of a sudden and I wasn't sure if it was a good or bad thing. Anyway, if I drink something hot and immediately drink something cold.....it seems to trigger some coughing to get the mucous out.
Susan, are you on oxygen as well?
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Post by susan on Nov 29, 2015 15:32:01 GMT -5
Izzie, In a sense, I can't take Spiriva and Atrovent together; I have to take them at least 2 hours apart. My COPD nurse told me that Spiriva seems to be well tolerated by women but men are more apt to have a problem with it. Maybe it's just mostly men that have a problem taking them together and, ... maybe not.  I really like Atrovent too. Like you, I was very concerned about the lack of mucous. I thought the mucous might be collecting somewhere and was becoming a breeding ground for bacteria. (I'm really good at scaring myself. ) I have got to try your hot/cold remedy. No, I'm not on oxygen. |
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Post by izzie on Nov 29, 2015 18:19:58 GMT -5
Susan.....Glad you don't have to be on oxygen as well. I have a love/hate relationship with my oxygen tank and I can't go anywhere without it.
When I became concerned about the lack of mucous, I decided to just concentrate on how I felt and whether I was having a good breathing day or not.
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Everyone,
and think at at least part of the reason for that was that I still had a lot of Spiriva in my system. If I remember correctly Spiriva has a half life of around 72 hours so if you do happen to have problems at first they could improve over a few days.
