liquid o2 verses a consecrator

[John]

I'm hoping to hear from members who are on o2 . I am newly on liquid but my ins will pay for either liquid or a concentrator but not both. What are the pros and cons to both . thankyou

[David]

I have never used liquid so I can't compare the two. I have no problem with the Concentrator. Nor do I have any problem with filling my on tanks.

[skate4life]

John - I am going to refer you to this site: www.portableoxygen.org/

You are using terms that refer to very different things. Liquid oxygen, commonly called LOX, is in liquid form, initially in a large tank that is used to supply smaller tanks. LOX tanks that you use for out and about generally last much longer than a 'POC.' LOX is pure oxygen. LOX does not depend on electricity or batteries!! Great for power outages. As I have mentioned before, trying to find a supplier is proving almost impossible these days, due to the low reimbursement dollars by Medicare.

A 'concentrator' refers to those machines that use room air to extract oxygen via a sieve and blow back into the room/air, the nitrogen. The actual concentration of oxygen is 87-96%. A 'POC' (Portable Oxygen Concentrator) runs on batteries (most look like a purse lady's purse that can even be used on airlines) and/or plugged into your home outlet or in your car. The POC can deliver oxygen either in pulse mode, a shot of oxygen when you take a breath, or can deliver it continuously although the battery in continuous mode runs out pretty quickly. They have a limit of 25 ft of oxygen tubing. It is great for those with low flow requirements. Almost all current POCs can deliver a maximum of 3 L/M. But as I noted elsewhere, if the battery gets too warm (out in sun while you are gardening, etc.) and runs out, it must come back to indoor temperature before it can start to recharge. So you must have a back up source of oxygen during that time.

There is also the 'stationary concentrator' which is a large machine 30+ lbs that you set up in a room (noisy and gives off a lot of heat) and runs continuously via electrical outlet (electrical cost is a medical deduction on taxes.) Most require annual maintenance by the oxygen provider. Some have external foam filters that need to be washed/dried at least monthly. You set the liters per minute flow that your doctor wants you on via the column float ball. The usually have 50 ft of oxygen tubing but a recent study said there is less than 1% drop off of oxygen at 100 ft --- so 75 ft should be safe.

There now are traditional concentrators that have a 'homefill option' to fill small canisters for being out and about. David could tell you about that set-up.

Since you were able to get LOX, stay with it!! That's my personal opinion. If your insurance will pay only for the LOX, stay with that. You can always purchase your own POC. Being in a 2 story house, the tubing limits were a real hassle. I purchased my own second 'concentrator' for the living room and it made a big difference for me. Like any major purchase, you have to shop around, and make sure the seller is certified and will do any repairs. The key to any set up is how well it oxygenates you under all circumstances, especially exertion (walking up grades, showering, carrying heavy items, walking up stairs, etc.) Recent studies are showing that the POCs are not keeping people well oxygenated under all circumstances. That is why having a pulse oximeter, and using it, is so important!

Hope this helps.

[John]

Skate; Thank you very much ! That information helps me a lot . I think because my portable that I can fill from my 47 lb tank can last up to 4 to 6 hrs on 2 and on demand works well for me . I found out I can rent a poc for our vacation trips by the week or weeks as needed from my supplier for a reasonable fee . thankyou P.S. That's a great o2 site

[skate4life]

Glad it helped.

[skate4life]

Here is another very informative site (and can print in pdf one section) including information about the individual POCs:

www.oxygenconcentratorstore.com/what-portable-oxygen-concentrator-is-right-for-you/

[John]

Thank You Skate . They swapped me out to a Helios plus should go 9 hrs on 2 and it only lasted 3 hrs . They trying to tell me I breathe to fast and thats why I'm running out . speechless-smiley-040 my breathing rate is per min .

[judi]

Bah humbug O2 providers. It sounds like you already know this but here is a link that shows at 2 hours and 18 breaths per minute it should last up to 10 hours. Print it off and whack them with it. (I am just coming off a big fight with my provider and went 6 weeks with no LOX, can you tell I am still mad? )

Is it leaking? They do drip some condensation after use but it should not be a big puddle. Is it totally full when after you fill it? Is it leaking when you fill it? Is it keeping your sats up well enough on 2 liters? Are you tilting it sideways? It needs to be upright or on its back. I saw a list of troubleshooting issues somewhere but can't remember right now where it was, will try, it may have been in the service manual for the unit.

I had D(?)compressed tanks when I first went on O2 and wrecked my neck carrying them in a shoulder bag. I've been on LOX for around 9 years. The only problem I have had in the past is that I can't sleep with it without getting airway irritation. I am not on very many meds and I don't know if that would be a problem for others taking more inhaled steroids, I get irritation easily. I use a concentrator at night. I just went on 8-10 liters for hard exercise and am having some problems with the O2 being cold at that flow but it sounds like you are a long way from having to worry about that.

It may be a little easier to travel if you can just take a bunch of compressed tanks rather than hauling a small reservoir to fill but to me the greater freedom of LOX on a daily basis is worth it. They are phasing it out in my area and I don't know what I am going to do if I have to use E tanks that only last me one hour. :-(

Are you in Canada or the US? Medicare guidelines state your equipment must be in good repair. My old provider phased out liquid, they were great. The current one is planning to drop it in a year and won't buy anything new. When I needed high flow I had to threaten them and go up the food chain to the branch manager to get them to make the effort to find me a high flow portable. If you are doing everything right they need to give you a new unit.

judi


www.cpap-company.com/helios300.htmle

[David]

I fixed your link, Judi. Hope you don't mind


www.cpap-company.com/helios300.html

[judi]

Thanks David, I didn't notice that. My computer has a mind of its own and jumps lines when I am typing so I end up with a mess sometimes. The e got tacked on from a different line.

Sorry if I can off a little rabid in my initial post. I had a battle with my declining lung function and equipment that was not working right so I was dealing with my own problems plus my supplier trying to tell me the equipment was fine (as O2 squirted out and pitter-patted on the floor when I filled it and it didn't have enough pressure to work properly) and I haven't quite recovered from it.

judi

[John]

Thanks Judy. I filled my portable ( helios plus) last night and 3 hrs later it was empty . I did not use it they said it should hold for 48 hrs speechless-smiley-040 this is my second one that won't hold . I must loading it wrong or something . I'll call them on Monday

[judi]

Did you check to see if it was actually full after you filled it? The little one like you have is quicker but they do make a hissing noise getting air out of the lines before the O2 actually starts to fill. When it fills you can feel it gurgling into the unit as you hold it. When its finished the sound will change slightly and it will start to emit a little vapor from the bottom and then go 'puff puff' when it starts to overfill. I always let mine 'puff' but am not sure you are supposed to, my original Helios lasted around 6 years with hard use so guess it didn't hurt it too much.

If you have a fullness gauge on reservoir see how many psi you have, it should be at least 20 I think but 22-24 is better for the larger ones at least. Portables are hard to fill with not enough pressure.

You could ask the tech to fill it to see if you are doing it right and to see how long it lasts when he does it. When I started with Lincare I was on Helios Marathon and the first 2 I tried leaked all over and did not last so he got 4 more for me to try and in that bunch was a good one.

I hope you get it resolved.

judi

[John]

Thank You Judy . It looks like I'm filling it correctly . These have a gravity gauge . I'll let them solve it !